Shawn O'Hara: Welcome, everyone. My guest today is Melanie Huck, who is a Registered Clinical Counsellor and the owner and clinic director of Rosemary Heights Counselling in South Surrey, where she has been practicing since 2003. Melanie specializes in working with couples and adults navigating anxiety, depression, grief, and major life transitions like divorce and the empty nester stage. Melanie holds a Master of Arts from the Adler School of Professional Psychology in Vancouver and leads a team of registered clinical counsellors offering in-person and virtual counselling across BC with a strong focus on ethical, compassionate, community-centered care. Welcome, Melanie. Thanks for being here. 

Melanie Huck: Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you today. 

Shawn O'Hara: Tell me, what is Rosemary Heights Counselling, what do you do there? 

Melanie Huck: We're a group counselling practice in South Surrey and White Rock. And as the clinic owner, I manage the team of RCCs. I also do my own counselling work with couples and adults, mainly in the areas of relationship issues, anxiety, depression, life transitions, and grief. 

Shawn O'Hara: How did you get into this? 

Melanie Huck: Well, I think my family, my early family experiences was probably a setup to end up in this career, like a most honest therapist will tell you. I was always kind of the peacekeeper of my family and really always a keen observer of the people around me. And so as I got older, I knew from a very young age, probably early high school, grade eight, that I wanted to go into psychology. And I think that people and their behaviors and the reasons why people behave the way they do has always fascinated me. And people's stories I find just fascinating and intriguing, and I just have a lot of compassion for people, so it just seemed to be a natural career choice for me. 

Shawn O'Hara: Their stories about their, their situation and what's going on around them sort of? 

Melanie Huck: Yeah. And why, what has influenced how they see the world, what has influenced how they see relationships, how they see other people, what influences their reactions interpersonally and individually. So I find it all, I mean, there's an endless stream of curiosity I have for that. 

Shawn O'Hara: Yeah, that's fascinating. So who regulates your industry? 

Melanie Huck: It's a really timely question, Shawn. Currently, if you use the title Registered Clinical Counsellor, that means you're a member of the BCACC, which stands for the British Columbia Association of Clinical Counsellors, I should say. They are an advocacy body. There is an ethical committee that investigates complaints from the public, but we self-regulate in that way. And so currently, as of next year, there is the College of Healthcare Professionals that clinical counsellors will become a part of. And so the regulation and legislation and any ethical investigations will be moving into the hands of the college, which will better protect the public, and then the BCACC at that time will become an advocacy body for the profession. 

Shawn O'Hara: Your profession is being grouped in with colleges like various other professions are in this province. 

Melanie Huck: That's right. Yeah, there's a lot of change coming, and our title will also be changing as well from Registered Clinical Counsellor to Licensed Psychotherapist. So I think a few of us, many of us have, I think, some nervousness around that for the general public because RCC is not the only title of counsellor in BC. There's also other designations that require maybe less supervision hours or less education, and so I think that I'm a little nervous personally that there's just going to be more confusion for the public to have to adopt one more title, but they're going off the model of the college in Ontario of Licensed Psychotherapists. So I think ultimately it's the right decision, but there's going to be, I think, a lot of transition for us in the field as well as the public. 

Shawn O'Hara: It'll be interesting to see how the public accepts that because even though everybody could benefit from your profession, some people may feel, "I don't need a psychotherapist. Oh, sure, I'll talk with a counsellor, counsellor is for people with real problems." 

Melanie Huck: That's right. And I already get the question all the time of what's the difference between a counsellor and a therapist. And of course then the word counsellor is not a term that nobody can use. You can be a school counsellor, a peer counsellor, a camp counsellor, the list goes on. So I think it will take some time, for everybody, including those of us in the profession, to adopt the title. But I think long-term, there'll be more protection for the public and a streamlined process rather than having a bunch of different bodies with different terms for title. 

Shawn O'Hara: You know who else in that college you're being merged with? 

Melanie Huck: Psychologists, speech pathologists, I believe I want to say opticians, and yeah, those are just the ones I'm aware of. 

Shawn O'Hara: Fascinating move in this province. We have what has been termed an activist government that has combined and has started regulating and taking away self-regulation. Do you know a, I guess a method or a reason behind taking away the self-regulation? 

Melanie Huck: Well, I think that the BCACC, and of course I'm not their spokesperson, but I've been a member for a long time, they have been lobbying for years to have some kind of body of recognition with the government. It hasn't been that many years that we have been recognized as providers for extended healthcare benefits companies, for example. When I started in the profession, it was unheard of that an RCC would be able to have a client direct bill and use their benefits to seek services. So I think a lot of the lobbying that's been done over the years has been about making sure that the general public has more access to counselling services, beyond free services that often have long wait lists and their staff are overwhelmed. This has always been the hope of the BCACC, it was just a matter of how it would look. And even now, even though we're just over, a year, about a year and a half away from being formally part of the college, even now there's lots of uncertainty and questions for all of us, and there are still things being hammered out. So we'll see how it goes. But yeah, they've been advocating for a governmental body for quite some time to be involved in the profession. 

Shawn O'Hara: So I guess you don't quite know how it'll impact everything that you're doing. 

Melanie Huck: I know some things. One example I can give is, currently we have to keep client files for seven years after the client terminates their counselling experience, and then they're destroyed. The college will have us keep those records now for 16 years. So that's one example of a shift that's coming our way. And of course, there'll be a myriad of other shifts there too that we'll have to be prepared for. But the BCACC has done quite a good job at involving us members and keeping us up to date with what they can. They have information sessions and town hall meetings for us to participate in, and also find the information on the website. So we're not in the dark by any stretch, but there's just a lot to figure out here. 

Shawn O'Hara: Sixteen years is, is a long time. 

Shawn O'Hara: Does anything else change around patient confidentiality? 

Melanie Huck: It shouldn't. Our confidentiality rules are already very strict, and we take our confidentiality and privacy information very seriously. So I don't believe there'll be many changes to that to come. But again, I don't know all the ins and outs of what's going on behind the scenes just yet either, so. 

Shawn O'Hara: What do you have to do now to keep patient confidentiality? 

Melanie Huck: The counsellor-client relationship requires, from a relationship standpoint, obviously, high confidentiality. Of course, the client can tell anybody that they're a client of mine, but I can't tell anybody that they're a client of mine. We are required, that is an ethical, well, it's a relational requirement, but it's also an ethical and a legal requirement to maintain that confidentiality. And so there are some exceptions to the confidentiality. And then in terms of information and privacy, if our charts are digital, they have to be under two passwords. Our emails are also under authentication and password-protected. Things like, if anyone is still keeping paper charts, that they're in a file cabinet locked, as well as behind a door that's locked. And in our office, for example, there's the front office door, and then there's the inner office door, and then there's the file cabinet, and all three of those are locked. 

Shawn O'Hara: Do you have storage for digital? Do you have storage in Canada rules? 

Melanie Huck: We do, yeah. We are required to make sure that, wherever the files are being held, that the server is in Canada. 

Shawn O'Hara: Has that been fairly straightforward or does that introduce a bit of complexity? 

Melanie Huck: I think it's been more straightforward since COVID. I mean, I think the clinical counselling profession is one of the professions that dramatically shifted. You know, I never imagined in a million years when I started out that I would be doing therapy through a screen, and I wasn't, before 2020. And then there was a pretty rapid shift in that direction, and there was a lot that needed to be sorted out. And so yeah, I think that in the first few months, there was a lot of kind of, you know, hiccups and everyone trying to figure out what was required but eventually it settled in and we all use secure platforms, and hopefully platforms that are also participating in the same privacy regulations that we do. 

Shawn O'Hara: Instead of Zoom or a free Google Meet type of thing. 

Melanie Huck: That's right. Yeah. 

Shawn O'Hara: How has that moved since the lockdown? Has that affected your business? 

Melanie Huck: In the beginning, there was a lot of anxiety for clients around meeting virtually. And if I'm being honest, it wasn't probably my first choice. I recall back in March and April of 2020, when I moved to, and at that time it was Zoom, that was kind of one of the most available platforms. But when I moved to Zoom, feeling exhausted by sessions in a way that I hadn't previously experienced. So I typically see between four and six clients a day, in person up to that point. And I found even seeing three clients virtually had a really exhausting effect on me. And I really, really noticed. I felt like I had to work quite a bit harder to connect with people this way, and I think some of that was my own learning curve. In terms of what that looks like now, years later, I have clients that really appreciate the flexibility if they can avoid a commute from Tsawwassen or Langley or Vancouver. I have people that will have childcare issues or be sick and not want to come in but are well enough to still meet. So I think it's introduced a level of flexibility with doing the work that has been great. And it also, I am also able now, as long as my client resides in BC, I can also work in other destinations. So it's opened up that possibility for all of us as well to be, you know, doing a working holiday in another country as long as our clients reside in BC that we can actually do that. So I would say overall it's been, I think, good. My preference is in person. I just feel more connected. There's something about that in-person connection and the mirror neuron-ing and some of that co-regulation that happens when you're with someone, especially if they're distressed. But the research shows that the online sessions are just as effective as in person. 

Shawn O'Hara: Okay, that's, that's good to know. If a client discloses something during a session, whether it's in person or online, that triggers, say, a duty to report, what types of conversations would prompt a duty to report? 

Melanie Huck: Well, we have a legal and an ethical obligation to report anything that a client shares with us related to emotional, physical, sexual, and verbal abuse of a minor. And so sometimes, you know, I've had times in the past where anecdotally someone will be sharing something with me unrelated to why they're there. And they're just, you know, sharing as part of their counselling session, and I do have to stop them and ask for some clarity. And if it is a minor, then I walk them through what our options are. I let them know that now that they've shared this with me, I do have a duty to report. It isn't my job, of course, to determine, you know, what goes on from there, but I do have that duty. So I will offer to sit next to them while they make the report, the phone call. I let them know they can do it anonymously if that's the only way they can do it for them. And then if it's something directly related to my client, then I do go ahead and make that call myself. But I always let them know, and I try to do what I can to reassure them of the reasons and the process. I give them as much information around that as I can. So it doesn't happen, being in private practice, it doesn't happen as frequently in my workplace as it would in, say, a different kind of clientele or a different kind of program. But it's, I definitely have had to make those calls. And they're always anxiety-inducing for the person and somewhat stressful for me as well, if I'm being honest. It's pretty, pretty serious, so. 

Shawn O'Hara: Good that you're there for that support, that emotional support, and to sit by them. 

Melanie Huck: Absolutely. And then I do as much checking in afterwards, because I know when they leave my office they're likely sitting in a lot. And so I'll do a check-in, touch base, and then invite them to return probably sooner than their next scheduled appointment so we can just touch base and chat, if they want. 

Shawn O'Hara: So that's fascinating that you offer that level of support, and I'm curious, would all counsellors, or maybe a better question is, how would one go about choosing a counsellor? 

Melanie Huck: Oh, that's a very good question. I find a lot of people will use word of mouth. So they ask their close network, their family, their friends, sometimes their coworker, their friend. You know, oftentimes I'll get questions around, "Will you see my best friend?" Or, "My best friend's husband wants to see you." So word of mouth is really strong. Followed up by, I would say, either a paid counselling directory. And so BCACC as well as the psychologist organization both have free directories where they list all of the psychologists and all of the Registered Clinical Counsellors working in BC. So you can search, and this is free to do, the directory according to topic, according to training, and according to geography. And then there are the paid platforms like Psychology Today and counsellingbc.com and various other directories that you can search a counsellor up on. And then I would say Google Ads. I have many people that when I ask them on the phone when I'm doing the free intake call, "How did you hear about us?" and when I was doing a lot of Google advertising, that was nine times out of ten how they found us. And people are always a little bit sheepish about it. They're always a little bit kind of embarrassed to sort of say that's how they found us, and I sort of normalize that that's, you know, many, many people. It's very typical, and that's how many people do find their counsellor. We also really stress personal fit, and so I do have other, beyond my team, I have, for example, we don't do child therapy, so we don't see any children under the age of ten. So I have a couple of different local practices that are very good and very ethical that I refer to. That's where that intake call's really helpful, as I can discern who on my team would be the best fit, and if there's no one on the team that's a fit, then I know where to refer them. Google Ads are quite a popular way to find a counsellor. 

Shawn O'Hara: Are you restricted in what you can and cannot say in an ad? 

Melanie Huck: Well, we can't use client testimonials, and we can't ask for client testimonials. When it comes to the topic of Google reviews, we actually can't ask for those, and that is because of the power dynamic and the position of vulnerability of the client and power of the therapist, that the idea might be that the therapist is using the relationship to ask a favor of the client. Perception, real, imagined, doesn't matter, but we never want to put our clients in that position. So we can't, as long as you're registered with BCACC, you can't ask for Google reviews or a client testimonial. That's one of the major restrictions there. We also can't make any guarantees. So if you're depressed, I can't advertise that I'll make sure that you're feeling well and healthy, and you're no longer depressed by three sessions. So we can't do that either. We're also limited on, we can't really offer, we can offer sliding scale session fees, but we can't offer sales, for example, like buy four sessions and get six kind of deal. Because a lot of times people engage in counselling at times when they're overwhelmed and stressed and depressed or anxious or traumatized. And so we have to be very careful about what we ask of people or very aware, and the idea that someone may choose to engage in counselling for three sessions, and they feel better, they feel some relief, and then they move on with their life. And now you've got, you're sitting there, you know, with three sessions owed to them, and that's not very ethical. So that's why we can't do that. 

Shawn O'Hara: And also an interesting situation for both, could gift, right? Okay. What can you say? 

Melanie Huck: I mean, you can say your experience, your training, the theoretical framework that you practice in. You can say what demographic your niche is, so whether that's children, youth, family, marriage and couples, individual. So there's a lot you can say to advertise yourself. Yeah. So people would have to give their own Google reviews and so on if they so chose. 

Shawn O'Hara: Up to them. 

Shawn O'Hara: Have you ever encountered issues with the platforms themselves having restrictions on what you're advertising? 

Melanie Huck: I'm no longer doing Google Ads themselves, but I keep my Google listing as active as I can, of course. And so when I go to do a Google post, there are a lot of words Google doesn't like that it will reject. A lot of emotion words it doesn't like. When, if I talk about, like, for example, part of my background is as a substance use counsellor and supporting families who are affected by someone's use or the person who's using themselves. When I go to write about substance use on a Google post, it does not like that terminology. Anything related to addictions or, say, sex therapy. Yeah, there's just quite a few words it doesn't like. So that's been tricky to figure out, as a business owner. 

Shawn O'Hara: Since it's automated, you probably have to find words that explain the same thing without using those words. Which I hear on YouTube quite a bit as well, and I have to go back a little bit to figure out what they're talking about. Now you had mentioned too counsellor and psychotherapists and so on, and so there's different people doing same or similar work. What, is there a difference between them? 

Melanie Huck: Yeah. It is confusing. There are a number of titles that indicate that you're a counsellor. As counsellors, we don't diagnose, and we don't do formalized assessments, nor do we prescribe medication. So a counsellor is someone who supports an individual or couple or a family to heal and work through, perhaps create more understanding and insight about themselves. Often, we will be giving feedback to the person. Often we are tracking physiological symptoms that are going on with the client in front of us and alerting that individual to that experience. So that's a lot of what a counsellor does. A psychologist has a PhD in psychology, and they are able to diagnose mental health conditions, and they are able to provide assessments, but they don't prescribe medication. They also do therapy similar to what a counsellor may do. They just have different training and a different title, of course, and more experience from their schooling. And then there's a psychiatrist, and that's a medical doctor who has gone into the specialty of psychiatry. So they've done extra years in a specialization, and they specialize in diagnosing and assessing major mental health conditions and prescribing medication. And they do very little what we would call therapy. They do support, of course, and they follow their patient. But they're more in the sort of the medical model idea, so they're not doing the kind of deeper therapeutic work. Often, they will refer to a psychologist or a Registered Clinical Counsellor. 

Shawn O'Hara: Can somebody do what you do without being part of the RCC? Or can someone just call themselves a counsellor? 

Melanie Huck: In BC, there are many different titles that one can hold that reflect counselling training, and they have varying lengths of education attached to them and varying levels of supervisory and practicum hours required. It depends on which counsellor you see will indicate, you know, how much training they've had. And then some of those are not also regulated in the same way that an RCC would be. So that has been one of the major motivations for establishing a college, just to streamline the profession a little more and protect the public. It's not that those people are not doing good work at all, but the training is different. And they may not have the same ethical code that we follow, or the same sort of requirements around continuing education and that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm happy to see the field sort of streamlining a little bit, because counsellor is not a term that's protected. 

Shawn O'Hara: And how does that differ from a life coach? 

Melanie Huck: Yeah. I know many great coaches, performance coaches, business coaches, leadership coaches, life coaches. They all have different training and different focus. Much like a counsellor, they often have, you know, different things they're passionate about and different populations they want to work with. They tend to be more focused on, I think, unhealthy habits, in the present that could be getting in the way of your future, you know, your most ideal self, your most, your highest potential self. And so for the most part, they aren't doing healing work around trauma or, they may be touching on strategies for anxiety and depression and that kind of thing, but that's really not their main scope of practice. So they do have different titles, different training as well, just like a counsellor. I see them as quite a nice partnership in a lot of ways. I have people I know who, coaches who refer to me and vice versa. But definitely a lot of their role is sort of more focused on self-actualization and goals oriented to the future, rather than healing the past. 

Shawn O'Hara: How would somebody know that they needed your services? Or what, what's, what process could somebody go through to think, "I'm, I got issues. I'm just not happy. What do I do?" 

Melanie Huck: Well, first of all, we all have issues, so we, we, you know, I, I personally believe that growth is never-ending, and learning about yourself and how you show up in the world and how you impact other people is kinda just a never-ending process. But if you're not growth-minded in that way and you don't have that value, you might notice yourself feeling consistently overwhelmed, consistently having mood changes, consistently preoccupied perhaps with, or sort of hyper-focused on, things you can't control, things that may happen but seem never to happen. You may be feeling really disconnected in your marriage or in your relationship, and just want to see that improve. And then we do a lot of trauma work at Rosemary Heights Counselling, so people will phone in and just say, "I know I have to deal with this, and I've been waiting till the right time, and, and I'm ready, and what can, what, how can you help me?" kind of thing. So that's a lot of the work that we do. 

Shawn O'Hara: Then can you assess there if you're the good fit or if there's somebody you should refer them to? I don't mean just say a child 'cause you don't deal with children, but other issues? 

Melanie Huck: What I've learned over the years of doing this is often people call in on a topic. We'll, I'll talk to them for 10 or 15 minutes. I get a good sense of, you know, what's bringing them in, and they will start with myself or someone else on the team, and we do that work for a period of sessions. But actually, we end up sitting in something they didn't call in about, but has been sort of holding them back or been in them forever, and it just does not feel resolved, and it's showing up in many areas of their life. And so I find that, you know, interesting. And I just always know you, you just never know what, what someone's going to, a current client or a new client is going to come in talking about, because life happens in between sessions. And so that is one of the things I enjoy about the work. It's just never boring, and people, it's hard to surprise me at this point, but I do still get surprised by, by what people go through, by, by what people have to overcome, and work through. And, and, and that's actually remarkable watching, sort of having a bird's eye view and being witness to people's resilience and watching people thrive despite going through terrible things. And, and, and, that's a really remarkable and special part of, of the work. 

Shawn O'Hara: I'd love to ask you some of the more fascinating stories, but I know you can't tell me. 

Melanie Huck: No, I cannot. 

Shawn O'Hara: So someone decides they need help, how do they go about selecting a counsellor? Like, what should they be asking? What should they be investigating or researching to find out if it's a good fit? 

Melanie Huck: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's very important. There are many, many different professionals and, and people out there to choose from, and so you want to make sure that the person has the education and the training. That's why when they're registered with the BCACC, that means that they've completed a master's in counselling psychology. They have a graduate degree in counselling psychology for sure. We are required to do continuing education, so you want to look for someone who's engaged in trainings and is participating in various trainings. You also want to look for someone that, fast-forwarding time over the course of, let's say, four to six weeks, maybe longer, that you could imagine yourself feeling trusting of, feeling comfortable with. And the research is very clear on this piece that personal fit trumps everything else. Trumps education, experience, theoretical framework. Personal fit matters most. And so when you're talking with someone on the phone, and I do recommend having a call with the prospective therapist you may book in with, you should feel like, "Okay, I like the sound of this person," or, "Their, their philosophy seem to line up with me." And you should feel like you can imagine that happening over the course of time. We know that it matters that much that we're never upset if someone says, "So-and-so is not a fit for me." We understand that it's that important. We don't take that personally. You're not going to be everybody's cup of tea, and that's okay. So I just really encourage people to keep looking for someone until you find the right person, because the, ideally, that person follows you in and out of your life through, through it all, and that becomes a really safe, trusting, predictable relationship for you through the course of, of time. So it's worth waiting to find the right person. 

Shawn O'Hara: It'd become very long-term then. 

Melanie Huck: Yes. Yeah, we all do long-term work in the work we do. 

Shawn O'Hara: That's fascinating. That's, good to know. 

Shawn O'Hara: Thank you, Melanie. How can people contact you or get ahold of you if they're interested in your services? 

Melanie Huck: Yeah, it's been great for me too, Shawn. The best way to reach me is through the website, which is www.rosemaryheightscounselling.com. We're also on Instagram @rosemaryheightscounselling and on Facebook. And my booking calendar is also on the website, so if anyone wants to have a quick chat, I can see if you're the right fit for our team. And if we're not, I'll connect you with, some good people. 

Shawn O'Hara: And you're in South Surrey? 

Melanie Huck: Yeah. We serve White Rock, South Surrey, and I would say Langley, Tsawwassen, Delta areas. Yeah. But we work virtually, so yeah. 

Shawn O'Hara: So they could be anywhere in BC then and use you. 

Melanie Huck: That's right. 

Shawn O'Hara: I'll put that information in the show notes as well. 

Melanie Huck: Great. 

Shawn O'Hara: Well, thank you very much for being here, Melanie. 

Melanie Huck: Thanks so much. That was super fun. 

Shawn O'Hara: That's a wrap.

Links

Rosemary Heights Counselling

Instagram @rosemaryheightscounselling

Melanie Huck on LinkedIn