Shawn O'Hara: Welcome everyone. My guest today is Maki Morriss, who is the founder and CEO of Riverstone Management Limited. She brings over 15 years of experience in recruitment. She specializes in helping Canadian businesses attract and retain top skilled trades talent, with licensed expertise in foreign worker recruitment. Maki is passionate about supporting youth entering the workforce and regularly presents at industry events and career expos. Her hands-on approach and commitment to positive candidate experiences make her a leader in building reliable teams across Canada, and we'll get into some of that today. Maki, can you share a bit about your journey? What inspired you to launch Riverstone Management? 

Maki Morriss: Thanks for having me here, Shawn. It is so ironic whenever you hear podcasts of people having recruiters, they often say, “I didn't go to school for recruitment; I just happened to fall into it,” and that is what really happened to me as well. I started my career in video games and recruitment and progressed into skilled trades, and I have been doing this for over a decade, really helping employers strengthen their employment branding so that they can attract and retain the right talent to grow their business. 

Shawn O'Hara: What do you love about it? 

Maki Morriss: When you are talking to struggling business owners and they are working back on the tools because they do not have enough people, and you have been able to help business owners like that gain the right talent so that they can actually focus on their business rather than in their business, that is really rewarding. We have also been able to help employers; actually, there is a company in Victoria that is part of the Vancouver Island Construction Association, and they became the employer of the year. Although it is definitely a collaborative effort, having a good process in place and recruitment really contributes to that. 

Those are some of the things that I really love: making an impact on everyday people. I think moving and having a new job is one of the most impactful things that can happen to you. To be part of that journey and to be able to make that connection between the employer and the right talent is really rewarding. 

Shawn O'Hara: And that is helping people who are being hired, but often, as I see, the employers do not know how to recruit or do not even know how to interview or anything like that. 

Maki Morriss: Definitely. There are business owners out there who are excellent at that. There are times where there is just so much on their plate that they are not able to dedicate their skill set to it, so being able to provide that additional support is where we want to make that contribution, because they are really great at what they do, but they may not be able to put the time and the focus into recruitment that they need to. 

That is ultimately because their business is growing and they are doing so well. 

Shawn O'Hara: Which is why they have to hire, because it is doing so well and they need people. 

Maki Morriss: That is right, and it is a vicious cycle, is it not? If you do not have enough people, you cannot bid for more work. If you do not have enough work, it is hard to keep the lights on. It is a real balancing act, looking at the cash flow to make sure that you can afford to hire the right people and also retain them. 

Shawn O'Hara: Getting into regulations, is this a regulated industry? Are there federal or provincial government bodies? 

Maki Morriss: Yes. To be able to provide paid recruitment services to an employer in BC, as well as in Ontario and other provinces, you need to be licensed. Riverstone is licensed in BC and Ontario, and we also have a partnership with another company where we are able to provide service in Alberta and Saskatchewan. 

To be able to provide those services, you need to be licensed. 

Shawn O'Hara: You need to be licensed. Why is that important, or what does the process involve to get licensed? 

Maki Morriss: In British Columbia, you need to go through some training as well as an application process. To become a recruiter in BC, you need to get a license, and in addition to that, if you are recruiting internationally and become a foreign recruiter, it is not just the agency that needs to be licensed, but the individual also needs to be licensed. 

If you have a recruiting agency where you have five recruiters and they are all working on international recruitment, they themselves, individually, need to be licensed. You have to go through the bond process and the application process. It is not an overnight process, for sure. 

Shawn O'Hara: Bond as in bonded? 

Maki Morriss: Yes, that is right. In BC, you have to provide a $20,000 bond. 

Shawn O'Hara: I guess an analogy is probably a medical clinic or a dental clinic. It is registered as a dental clinic under the Island Health Authority and has to meet certain obligations, but the dentists in there cannot just be people off the street saying, “I want to pull teeth.” They actually have to be certified and registered dentists, and it is probably similar. 

Maki Morriss: That is right. You hear these terrible stories where, unfortunately, candidates from outside the country will pay a recruiter to find them a job, and that is illegal in Canada. You have to make sure that you are protecting yourself, but you are also protecting those people who are looking for a new life and opportunity in Canada. 

That is not just internationally; it is also domestically as well. 

Shawn O'Hara: So it is illegal for somebody who is looking for work to pay somebody to find them a job. 

Maki Morriss: It is in Canada, yes. In BC they do not really spell out all the penalties, but it is more clearly laid out in Ontario. For example, if you are not licensed and you are working as a recruiter and you are getting paid for that, you could be fined up to $50,000. 

The onus also goes onto the employer. If the employer is working with a recruiter and they know that the recruiter is not licensed, they themselves can be penalized. At the end of the day, you want to make sure that you are doing everything right. You are dealing with people’s livelihood and also their company’s livelihood. If you do not have a workforce, you do not have a company, so it is good that it is regulated and that people are aware that they need to work with a licensed recruiter. 

Shawn O'Hara: Who licenses, or what is the branch of the government? I am gathering it is provincial, because the rules differ in BC and Ontario. 

Maki Morriss: That is right. If you are hiring locally, it is regulated by the BC government and the Ontario government. If you are recruiting somebody overseas, then you have a combination of both provincial and federal involvement, because it is Service Canada that provides the work permit. 

Shawn O'Hara: What are the risks or consequences for businesses that work with recruiters who are not licensed, or for recruiters who are not licensed themselves? What can happen to them when they are caught? How can someone find out if a company is registered as a licensed recruiter? 

Maki Morriss: In British Columbia and in Ontario there is a registry that you can search. You can enter the individual’s name or the agency’s name, and it will be listed if they are licensed. 

Shawn O'Hara: That is neat. That is something an employer would need to do. 

You also specialize in foreign worker recruitment. What unique compliance requirements should a Canadian business be aware of when they want to hire internationally? 

Maki Morriss: I am going to focus a little bit on BC, because that is where my expertise is in terms of international recruitment. In British Columbia, before you can actually bring in a candidate, there are many ways of getting a candidate a work permit. I specialize in high‑skilled recruitment rather than low‑skilled. My experience has been through the BC Nomination Program as well as the Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA). 

For any employer in BC that wants to hire a temporary foreign worker, they themselves need to be registered. Before you can even put in the application form to the federal government, you need to be registered, and that can be a lengthy process. Typically, when someone says, “I need somebody,” they come to us because they needed them yesterday. It would be really great if employers knew about this so that they can set themselves up to succeed and make the process as fast as possible, because they are already set up to submit their application. 

Shawn O'Hara: What is the process for an employer to get registered? 

Maki Morriss: It is a matter of going online and going through the process. There are no fees; it is just time. You are filling out the form and proving that you are a legitimate company. 

You can go through a process where you hire an immigration consultant and invest in the process without knowing you need that registration. Then, when it is time to put your application in and you do not have that registry form or that certificate, you have wasted all that time and effort. That is the first thing we ask when we are working with an employer in BC: “Are you registered?” If not, we get you registered right away, because it can take weeks or months, and that is not time that employers can afford. 

Shawn O'Hara: An employer who thinks, “I need to hire somebody,” goes out, contacts you, and then you would help them to get registered. 

Maki Morriss: They themselves can get registered. They really do not need anybody’s assistance. If you are a new employer in BC and you are thinking that eventually you would like to hire internationally, you might as well get registered now, because it does not cost you anything and it sets you up to be able to take that step. 

Should you choose to hire internationally, you are ready. 

Shawn O'Hara: But if they are not aware, then you would guide them to do that. 

Maki Morriss: That is right. I always work with a licensed immigration consultant. I am not a licensed immigration consultant and I cannot provide any of that immigration advice. In fact, no one can unless they are licensed. That is another thing that I share with my clients to make sure that they are working with somebody properly licensed. You can find immigration consultants on a registry as well. 

Shawn O'Hara: If they want to hire a foreign worker, then the company has to be licensed, and if they are working with you, you are dealing with the recruitment part and someone else is dealing with the immigration issues, usually an immigration lawyer or consultant. 

Maki Morriss: A licensed immigration consultant, yes. 

Shawn O'Hara: So it is a heavily regulated industry then. 

Maki Morriss: It is, and it can be a costly process for the company. That is why I always recommend that the company work with a licensed immigration consultant to help them make sure that their application is completed to the best of their ability. There is nothing worse than going through the process and then, at the end, your application gets denied because you missed a step. 

Shawn O'Hara: If there are any companies that are trying to get people in under the table as tourists and then pay them under the table, they are taking a big risk then. 

Maki Morriss: Yes. I would hope no one is doing that, because you are putting your company in a situation where you are putting the workers at risk as well. The onus is on the worker to have their work permit valid, but at the end of the day, your reputation as a company matters. If you are hiring people under the table, that is not the place to be. 

If they are doing that, you have to ask if they are skimping on safety. If they are cutting corners there, what else are they cutting corners on? 

Shawn O'Hara: I remember decades ago that being an issue in the Fraser Valley: safety standards being cut, people being paid under the table, foreign workers brought in and paid under the table, and living in horrible conditions. 

Maki Morriss: Yes. 

Shawn O'Hara: Can you explain how compliance with a trade or a professional association might impact a business’s ability to attract and retain top talent? 

Maki Morriss: In BC we have the Wage Transparency Act, where you are required to put the compensation on your job advertisement. You may come across candidates who know about this, and if you do not have that on your job ad, they may think, “Why is that?” At the end of the day, employment branding is so important. You need to be able to share with your future candidates what it is like to work for your company and to stay with your company. 

Your new hires are spending the majority of their time with their employer, so you want to make sure that you put your best foot forward and that you are attracting the talent you need to grow your business. 

Shawn O'Hara: The Sidney Breakfast Club, which I have covered on this podcast before, had speakers from South Island Prosperity who were talking about a survey that found that a few of the issues for employers, or even businesses just investing in the South Island, are seen as negatives here. A shortage of family doctors and access to health care is a detriment, and even arts and culture: we just do not have enough arts and culture in this city. That is maybe not strictly recruitment, but it is partly a recruitment issue and partly an investment issue. 

Maki Morriss: Employers on Vancouver Island and on the mainland are not only dealing with a shortage of skilled tradespeople. They are also facing the housing shortage, where candidates cannot afford to move to that location because it is so costly. When there is little to no talent on Vancouver Island and they have to look outside of the island to attract talent, they need to incorporate relocation costs or some kind of assistance. 

It is a costly thing for employers, and I can see why it is so vital to hire the right person. There is nothing worse than investing in relocating an individual, and even their family, to come to Vancouver Island and having it not work out. It is not good for the employer, and it is certainly not a good experience for the candidate as well. 

Shawn O'Hara: This is like paradise, although we do not want to tell anybody, because we have a lot of people moving here. The lifestyle, the weather, and the ability to do things outdoors are all great for a company thinking of investing, but then we have the housing, the culture, and the medical system that all become detriments. 

What are some voluntary practices that you have seen businesses adopt, like living wage standards or eco‑friendly initiatives, and what effect might these have in the recruitment process? 

Maki Morriss: When you are looking at the workforce you are trying to attract and you have a quarter of the population retiring or already retired from your workforce, your marketing to these candidates needs to be different from what it used to be. With Gen Zs, they are looking to be able to contribute to the company. They want to have some kind of mission. There have been studies done that show they want to make sure they are joining a company where they are making a difference. 

You want to highlight that in your employment branding to attract these candidates. 

Shawn O'Hara: That is a neat point. It is not like the old days where you just apply, fill out a form, show up, do the job, get paid, go home at the end of the day, and go back the next day. It is a different demographic, where people want to feel that they are truly contributing. A company that has a focus and is invested in the community will probably have an easier time recruiting or retaining people if they can put across, “This is why we exist; this is what we are doing; this is who we have helped,” or however they measure that. 

Maki Morriss: I always come back to employment branding, because the best way for employers to share what it is like to join their company or to stay with their company is through social media. That is where your future talent is spending their time. It is not just a matter of doing good things for the people you have in your organization. 

It is also a way to share with your future candidates: this is the kind of work we do, and this is the kind of positive impact we make. 

Shawn O'Hara: Do you recommend that employers look internally for recruiting? Sometimes it has been an issue where people hate their jobs and say, “There is no way I would curse my best friend by bringing them into this company.” How does it work for a company that has a mission and is keeping their staff happy? Is that a good place to go internally and say, “Who can you bring in?” Can they reward them, or is there a way to handle that well? 

Maki Morriss: Yes. It is something that we often talk about with our clients: do they have an employee referral program? It does not have to be expensive. I think a local sheet metal company we were working with was offering a steak dinner if an employee brought in a friend or colleague who was hired. 

It does not have to be a costly thing, but an internal referral program is a great way to grow your talent pool. 

Shawn O'Hara: That is interesting. Has anyone studied whether that helps with overall retention? If I bring in a friend, I am more likely to stay and the friend is more likely to stay, because it is not just the company; it is my friend who brought me in. 

Maki Morriss: It does. 

Shawn O'Hara: Employees or potential employees do not pay their recruiters to be placed. How does the money work? What is the process when somebody says, “I need to hire,” and they are thinking of contacting you? 

Maki Morriss: At Riverstone we service employers. There are many agencies that service both employers and candidates. For the candidates, they would never be charged a fee for finding them a job, because it is illegal to get money from candidates to place them. Those agencies might provide résumé writing services or coaching, things like that. 

That is not something that Riverstone focuses on. We support employers, so when employers need additional recruitment support, or maybe they do not have an internal HR or recruitment team, that is where we come in. There are a variety of services that we provide and fee structures to compensate us for our services. 

Shawn O'Hara: What kind of businesses do you help, or what kind do you specialize in? For our listeners who are thinking, “I wonder if I should contact Maki. Can she help me?”, what types of industries or situations might they be in? 

Maki Morriss: We focus on helping employers in the manufacturing and construction industries. That can be anywhere from a machine shop that is looking for CNC machinists to a mechanical company that is hiring HVAC technicians or gas fitters. We also help food manufacturing and packaging manufacturing companies to hire maintenance technicians and power engineers to help with their energy generation, as well as plant managers. 

We support employers in construction as well. If they are looking for project managers, estimators, or site superintendents, we support anyone in the construction or manufacturing realm. 

Shawn O'Hara: Do you check the certifications and training of the people you are bringing in, to make sure they are Red Seal or have whatever else they need? 

Maki Morriss: Yes. It is actually surprising that some employers do not, so we educate them on how they can verify a ticket. Tickets are issued by the province. If you have a Red Seal machinist, that is issued by Skilled Trades BC. You can go to their website and get the verification. 

Sometimes it might not show up online, so you can call them and they can support you through that process. 

Shawn O'Hara: That could be a big liability if something goes wrong and the people working on it were not certified. 

Maki Morriss: I am hoping employers are not put in that situation and that candidates are honest, but there are places you can go to verify those credentials. 

Shawn O'Hara: What advice would you give to employers when it comes to recruitment in the skilled trades? 

Maki Morriss: The BC Construction Association provided statistics showing that 92% of their members have staff of 20 and under. Because it is so competitive out there and it is a candidate‑driven market, you are competing with large corporations. If you are a small to mid‑size CNC machine shop and you are competing with national companies, how can you make yourself different so that candidates want to apply to you instead of the other company or your competitor? You have to become the employer of choice. 

To do that, you have to make sure you have a good recruitment process that is repeatable and scalable, and ultimately you have to provide the candidates with a really great experience. For example, if you go to a restaurant and you wait 20 minutes to get your table and you have a terrible experience and the food is not right, you are probably going to tell all your friends never to go there. That is exactly what happens when candidates have a terrible experience. 

Maki Morriss: Imagine you have a maintenance technician who is currently working at a food manufacturing plant and, because they are all on shift, they are all together in the lunchroom talking. One person says, “I went for an interview at this company and had a terrible experience.” Your reputation has just gone down the drain, because everybody in that room has heard that story. They are all potential staff. 

If you do not have a good hiring process in place, you are not likely to be able to provide candidates with a great experience. That can include ghosting candidates or not updating them. I think ghosting is probably the worst thing. It is like dating: if you do not hear back from the other person, it is terrible, and you are probably never going to go back to that person again. 

Maki Morriss: If you do not get the job but you have a great experience, you are more likely to come back to that employer if they have another opportunity. You might even want to apply again. I really encourage employers to look at their hiring process and even ask their new hires, “How was your experience?” If they had a good experience, find out what made it good and make sure every person involved in the hiring process repeats that. 

Shawn O'Hara: That would give them a much smoother process. For people who have been running their business for decades, they would have to see that the old way of doing it has changed, and they have to react to or deal with the new reality. 

Maki Morriss: If you look at the current talent pool, the candidates you are talking to from job boards are considered active candidates, and they represent about 30% of the available talent pool. The other 70% are passive candidates, meaning they are not actively looking for a job, but they could actually be the candidate who becomes your next best hire; they are just not out there applying. 

You need to make sure that you have good employment branding so that when you tap them on the shoulder and say, “Would you consider working for us? You might be a great fit for our organization,” they say, “Yes, I am interested in working for you.” It is vital for employers to focus on what their recruitment process looks like. 

Maki Morriss: One good way of doing this, if you are a business owner, is to be an undercover candidate. Go through the process yourself and become a candidate. What is the experience like? Another question I often ask my clients is, “Does every candidate have the same experience?” They should, because you should have a system in place. If they do not, then you know there needs to be some tweaking. 

You cannot afford to lose that next best hire, because we are dealing with an incredible labour shortage, particularly in the skilled trades. 

Shawn O'Hara: That is good advice, like a mystery shopper or mystery candidate. That is good advice for an owner of any business: to see how things are done, how the phone is answered, how the whole process works, because they may be surprised. It might not be what they laid out for everybody to do. 

Maki Morriss: Sometimes they do not even need to go through the process, because they know they are the ones doing the recruitment. That goes back to how we were talking about business owners being so busy. They used to be able to dedicate effort to recruitment, but they cannot right now because they are so busy. 

Shawn O'Hara: It is neat. Thank you, Maki. As we wrap up, could you please tell our listeners how they can find out more about you, how they can connect with you and Riverstone Management? 

Maki Morriss: You can contact us at info@riverstonemanagement.com. You can call us at (250) 508‑3065. We are also on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 

Shawn O'Hara: Great. Thank you so much for being here. 

Maki Morriss: Thank you so much, Shawn. It has been great being able to share some of the experiences, and hopefully employers are able to make some adjustments to their recruitment so that they can grow their business. 

Shawn O'Hara: And that is a wrap. 

Show Notes Links

• Riverstone Management Ltd. https://riverstonemanagement.com/
• Email: info@riverstonemanagement.com 
• Phone: 250-508‑3065 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/riverstone-management-ltd./